Your music is often called new protest music. How do you personally relate to this tag?
Chris Vargas: I don’t know what that means to be called new protest music - I think there’s just a straightforward way to how I write lyrics. Lyrically I’m protesting these ideas, and with Tobias, we build songs that are just earnest and energetic and deliver who we are at that time. I think that when protesting, one should be very sincere, and in our songs, I try to be direct and efficient.
Tobias Rochman: I think it’s the idea we’ve always said to ourselves - if you are going to yell at someone, you might as well yell at them for a reason. We don’t want to use just the aesthetics of urgency without actually having an urgent message. You know what I mean. We are living in the world that is changing fast, and I think there is a lot of confusion and anxiety around that. There are a lot of issues. I think young people understand the environmental concerns in a way that maybe previous generations have not. They also realize that we have ten years now, according to IPSS, to become carbon neutral or to stop catastrophic warming on the planet. So everything is building around that framework.
Your music is often called new protest music. How do you personally relate to this tag?
Chris Vargas: I don’t know what that means to be called new protest music - I think there’s just a straightforward way to how I write lyrics. Lyrically I’m protesting these ideas, and with Tobias, we build songs that are just earnest and energetic and deliver who we are at that time. I think that when protesting, one should be very sincere, and in our songs, I try to be direct and efficient.
Tobias Rochman: I think it’s the idea we’ve always said to ourselves - if you are going to yell at someone, you might as well yell at them for a reason. We don’t want to use just the aesthetics of urgency without actually having an urgent message. You know what I mean. We are living in the world that is changing fast, and I think there is a lot of confusion and anxiety around that. There are a lot of issues. I think young people understand the environmental concerns in a way that maybe previous generations have not. They also realize that we have ten years now, according to IPSS, to become carbon neutral or to stop catastrophic warming on the planet. So everything is building around that framework.
Some people are sending the alarm, and other people are on the streets, other people are trying to pass legislation - everybody has a role to play, and activism is a spectrum. You just need to start engaging in the conversation.
Some people are sending the alarm, and other people are on the streets, other people are trying to pass legislation - everybody has a role to play, and activism is a spectrum. You just need to start engaging in the conversation.
And I think in the times we live in there is a lot of frustration and anxiety among people who come to the shows and maybe they need some catharsis, and maybe we help them to provide that.
You mentioned the catharsis. Do you think a club or a dance floor is the right place to experience it?
T: The more I think about it, the more I believe that yes, it is an appropriate place. In a time when people are feeling alienated because of social media and digital technologies, I think it’s vital that we have real-world spaces to meet up and share things with each other. Having that moment in a club where you are surrounded by real people in real-time makes it a great place for politics, for the community. Probably for misfit-type people like us, a club is a great place.
C: I do talk about sexual assault victims, sexism, macho culture - that’s kind of conversation people deal with all the time, that affects more than one person in the space. I am not even saying anything new about these topics. I am just trying to make it more exposed. So it becomes something that we talk about, even on the dancefloor, where a lot of boundaries are very blurred. The club can be a weird space for a lot of people, but it’s also a welcoming space for a lot of people. It always invites strangers who don’t belong there, and this can create an arena for dialogue.
And I think in the times we live in there is a lot of frustration and anxiety among people who come to the shows and maybe they need some catharsis, and maybe we help them to provide that.
You mentioned the catharsis. Do you think a club or a dance floor is the right place to experience it?
T: The more I think about it, the more I believe that yes, it is an appropriate place. In a time when people are feeling alienated because of social media and digital technologies, I think it’s vital that we have real-world spaces to meet up and share things with each other. Having that moment in a club where you are surrounded by real people in real-time makes it a great place for politics, for the community. Probably for misfit-type people like us, a club is a great place.
C: I do talk about sexual assault victims, sexism, macho culture - that’s kind of conversation people deal with all the time, that affects more than one person in the space. I am not even saying anything new about these topics. I am just trying to make it more exposed. So it becomes something that we talk about, even on the dancefloor, where a lot of boundaries are very blurred. The club can be a weird space for a lot of people, but it’s also a welcoming space for a lot of people. It always invites strangers who don’t belong there, and this can create an arena for dialogue.
Chris, in your lyrics, you shine a spotlight on quite severe and sometimes terrifying topics. Expressing your feelings on paper while writing lyrics is one thing, but performing it on stage is entirely different. How do you prepare yourself for such frank dialogue? Where does all this energy we see come from?
C: I understand that it can be a trigger to talk about sexual assault openly, but I strongly believe that there is a stigma around talking about it. In 'Habla Tu Verdad,' when I say "speak your truth," it's because I found it empowering when I publicly spoke about one of my sexual assaults. I was quickly welcomed by so many people who shared with me, in private messages, their own sexual assault experiences. And I won't lie, I was not equipped to receive that much information and found it overwhelming but only to realize just how incredibly real it was to be faced with so many people with similar or worse experiences. The reality is that this happens way too often, and with that, there's shame and oppression added onto the 'victim' when wanting to talk about it publicly or privately. Talking is a way to liberate yourself and we should provide time and space, compassion and support when this happens to a person. Instead, society would rather be unbothered by the conversation.
It's also incredibly surreal to me how challenging it is to legally prove when one's been assaulted. I think one shouldn't assume this hasn't happened in one's surroundings because, in actuality, we've been so trained and conditioned not to feel encouraged to talk about it, and we're used to not being heard or believed. It also brings into a conversation when trans women or sex workers report sexual assault and how heteronormative patriarchal systemic society tends to add more violence onto them because of oppressive binary views on gender.
Chris, in your lyrics, you shine a spotlight on quite severe and sometimes terrifying topics. Expressing your feelings on paper while writing lyrics is one thing, but performing it on stage is entirely different. How do you prepare yourself for such frank dialogue? Where does all this energy we see come from?
C: I understand that it can be a trigger to talk about sexual assault openly, but I strongly believe that there is a stigma around talking about it. In 'Habla Tu Verdad,' when I say "speak your truth," it's because I found it empowering when I publicly spoke about one of my sexual assaults. I was quickly welcomed by so many people who shared with me, in private messages, their own sexual assault experiences. And I won't lie, I was not equipped to receive that much information and found it overwhelming but only to realize just how incredibly real it was to be faced with so many people with similar or worse experiences. The reality is that this happens way too often, and with that, there's shame and oppression added onto the 'victim' when wanting to talk about it publicly or privately. Talking is a way to liberate yourself and we should provide time and space, compassion and support when this happens to a person. Instead, society would rather be unbothered by the conversation.
It's also incredibly surreal to me how challenging it is to legally prove when one's been assaulted. I think one shouldn't assume this hasn't happened in one's surroundings because, in actuality, we've been so trained and conditioned not to feel encouraged to talk about it, and we're used to not being heard or believed. It also brings into a conversation when trans women or sex workers report sexual assault and how heteronormative patriarchal systemic society tends to add more violence onto them because of oppressive binary views on gender.
All I want to say to the reader or listener is that you're not alone. Be aware of the effects of gaslighting - when one feels it was their fault or feel trapped by the fear of speaking, or worse, being faced with not being believed. Personally, it means a lot to me to be able to hold that space when we perform these songs with these themes and content.
All I want to say to the reader or listener is that you're not alone. Be aware of the effects of gaslighting - when one feels it was their fault or feel trapped by the fear of speaking, or worse, being faced with not being believed. Personally, it means a lot to me to be able to hold that space when we perform these songs with these themes and content.
So I suppose the experience of catharsis is also common for you as a performer, not only the audience.
C: Yes, for me, it is also a very cathartic thing to kind of yell all these things out cause I am not the only one who thinks about them, I am not the only one feeling anger and anxiety towards those ideas. So I recognize that in the audience sometimes when people are responding well to that. And they also want to scream back at me. Or I give them a thing, and they give me that thing back. That’s kind of exchange I want when people feel liberated by the fact I say “FUCK.”
So I suppose the experience of catharsis is also common for you as a performer, not only the audience.
C: Yes, for me, it is also a very cathartic thing to kind of yell all these things out cause I am not the only one who thinks about them, I am not the only one feeling anger and anxiety towards those ideas. So I recognize that in the audience sometimes when people are responding well to that. And they also want to scream back at me. Or I give them a thing, and they give me that thing back. That’s kind of exchange I want when people feel liberated by the fact I say “FUCK.”
Being socially concerned is very difficult and might come along with depression, frustration, and stress. Are these feelings common for you?
C: I do, at times, experience ongoing depression due to PTSD, and sometimes I do feel stressed, but I don’t worry about it so much. I’ve learned to understand my body and behavior and try to navigate through it, which is always a work in progress. As someone who socializes a lot, I do require a lot of time alone. I find it the most challenging on tour when each night you’re playing and meeting new people. But I also enjoy it when we meet communities with like-minded views.
When we were writing the album, that’s when I experienced the most destabilizing depression and anxiety because of thoughts of self-doubt and uncertainty. But now that it is out there, I feel very proud of the work we did. So I don’t carry that same negative energy now that we’re writing new material. I believe in myself, in Tobias and the project more. I want the project to keep growing and to keep evolving.
Being socially concerned is very difficult and might come along with depression, frustration, and stress. Are these feelings common for you?
C: I do, at times, experience ongoing depression due to PTSD, and sometimes I do feel stressed, but I don’t worry about it so much. I’ve learned to understand my body and behavior and try to navigate through it, which is always a work in progress. As someone who socializes a lot, I do require a lot of time alone. I find it the most challenging on tour when each night you’re playing and meeting new people. But I also enjoy it when we meet communities with like-minded views.
When we were writing the album, that’s when I experienced the most destabilizing depression and anxiety because of thoughts of self-doubt and uncertainty. But now that it is out there, I feel very proud of the work we did. So I don’t carry that same negative energy now that we’re writing new material. I believe in myself, in Tobias and the project more. I want the project to keep growing and to keep evolving.
What other aspects of the global music scene you think have to be reconsidered?
T: I would say that music can sometimes be sterilized. Musicians are making less money, they make more sort of concessions to the corporations, to streaming platforms. So it can push music into the place which is sort of corporate. People sometimes are afraid to take things aside, so when you see somebody who is not scared to do that, it can get you really excited. People can respond to it very naturally and very quickly. Currently, people are changing the way they write their songs to be featured in editorial playlists for streaming platforms. I think people respond when you present something that is a bit unpolished and a bit more real. When you say: “I believe in this.” And we want to bring a little bit of that back. I don’t think we are the first people to do that and not the last, but I think we are currently the people who are doing that.
Also, we’ve been talking a lot about surveillance, capitalism. I think it’s our vocation to rock the boat, as there is a lot of people who are just scared to speak up about these things that make them feel uncomfortable. They think they lose likes, they lose followers, and I think we need to be brave. We can’t fully accept everything without questioning it. It’s crucial that we take that sense of agency and I’d like to inspire other people. We’ve been touring a lot for the last five years, working hard, and I think the only way to hack all these troubles is to do real things.
What other aspects of the global music scene you think have to be reconsidered?
T: I would say that music can sometimes be sterilized. Musicians are making less money, they make more sort of concessions to the corporations, to streaming platforms. So it can push music into the place which is sort of corporate. People sometimes are afraid to take things aside, so when you see somebody who is not scared to do that, it can get you really excited. People can respond to it very naturally and very quickly. Currently, people are changing the way they write their songs to be featured in editorial playlists for streaming platforms. I think people respond when you present something that is a bit unpolished and a bit more real. When you say: “I believe in this.” And we want to bring a little bit of that back. I don’t think we are the first people to do that and not the last, but I think we are currently the people who are doing that.
Also, we’ve been talking a lot about surveillance, capitalism. I think it’s our vocation to rock the boat, as there is a lot of people who are just scared to speak up about these things that make them feel uncomfortable. They think they lose likes, they lose followers, and I think we need to be brave. We can’t fully accept everything without questioning it. It’s crucial that we take that sense of agency and I’d like to inspire other people. We’ve been touring a lot for the last five years, working hard, and I think the only way to hack all these troubles is to do real things.
Yes, sincerity is precisely what the music industry lacks right now.
T: We have the tracks which are 7 minutes long, so we are not trying to please algorithms. In terms of record labels, we said no to a lot, because through meeting some of them, we had sort of uncomfortable conversations with their ideas or what we should do or how we should be doing it. A lot of people were like: "Oh, could you please sing a couple of songs in English?" With PAN, the difference is that we were fans of the label - there were a lot of records we had a lot of respect for. But we did wait for five years before signing with anyone because we wanted to make sure it was something worth it. And I think we made the right choice.
Yes, sincerity is precisely what the music industry lacks right now.
T: We have the tracks which are 7 minutes long, so we are not trying to please algorithms. In terms of record labels, we said no to a lot, because through meeting some of them, we had sort of uncomfortable conversations with their ideas or what we should do or how we should be doing it. A lot of people were like: "Oh, could you please sing a couple of songs in English?" With PAN, the difference is that we were fans of the label - there were a lot of records we had a lot of respect for. But we did wait for five years before signing with anyone because we wanted to make sure it was something worth it. And I think we made the right choice.
Also, we’ve been talking a lot about surveillance, capitalism. I think it’s our vocation to rock the boat, as there is a lot of people who are just scared to speak up about these things that make them feel uncomfortable. They think they lose likes, they lose followers, and I think we need to be brave. We can’t fully accept everything without questioning it.
Also, we’ve been talking a lot about surveillance, capitalism. I think it’s our vocation to rock the boat, as there is a lot of people who are just scared to speak up about these things that make them feel uncomfortable. They think they lose likes, they lose followers, and I think we need to be brave. We can’t fully accept everything without questioning it.
It’s crucial that we take that sense of agency and I’d like to inspire other people. We’ve been touring a lot for the last five years, working hard, and I think the only way to hack all these troubles is to do real things.
What dialogue should be established in conditions of lockdown, pandemic, and post-pandemic landscapes? Do you think we need a radical creative response, even more, these days?
T: I always believe we need a more radical creative response. Let's continue to create value in the margins if that's where we've been pushed to. It's essential to find the courage to cut against the grain, and we should seek out and show support to all artists who embody that. Artists authorize an alternative reality by presenting how the world could be seen. That's why music can inspire you to change, and it can travel so quickly across the world because there is no academic prerequisite for engaging with it. For us, it feels important to go on record telling the truth. To say something, and to stand behind it.
It’s crucial that we take that sense of agency and I’d like to inspire other people. We’ve been touring a lot for the last five years, working hard, and I think the only way to hack all these troubles is to do real things.
What dialogue should be established in conditions of lockdown, pandemic, and post-pandemic landscapes? Do you think we need a radical creative response, even more, these days?
T: I always believe we need a more radical creative response. Let's continue to create value in the margins if that's where we've been pushed to. It's essential to find the courage to cut against the grain, and we should seek out and show support to all artists who embody that. Artists authorize an alternative reality by presenting how the world could be seen. That's why music can inspire you to change, and it can travel so quickly across the world because there is no academic prerequisite for engaging with it. For us, it feels important to go on record telling the truth. To say something, and to stand behind it.
We can't sustain a left movement without a vision of something that's not just counter to what we have but offers a guiding framework for constructing something better. This is where imagination and creativity become invaluable tools.
We can't sustain a left movement without a vision of something that's not just counter to what we have but offers a guiding framework for constructing something better. This is where imagination and creativity become invaluable tools.
Maybe it seems obvious to some, but I'm personally not hearing enough dissenting voices, or they are just being drowned out or suppressed by algorithms, so it felt worthwhile to create a project to help boost our signal. Now more than ever, we must persist. We must see the world differently and show solidarity among all those in this struggle and raise a coalition. We need to examine ourselves and society critically and build a dialogue working from that understanding. Tell the truth. Work with what we have. Stay strong.
Maybe it seems obvious to some, but I'm personally not hearing enough dissenting voices, or they are just being drowned out or suppressed by algorithms, so it felt worthwhile to create a project to help boost our signal. Now more than ever, we must persist. We must see the world differently and show solidarity among all those in this struggle and raise a coalition. We need to examine ourselves and society critically and build a dialogue working from that understanding. Tell the truth. Work with what we have. Stay strong.